Comments on: Crossover games and explaining them to the audience http://www.ebonyfortress.com/blog/2009/12/02/crossover-games-and-explaining-them-to-the-audience/ Thoughts on computer games and their development Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:14:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Ben http://www.ebonyfortress.com/blog/2009/12/02/crossover-games-and-explaining-them-to-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-41 Ben Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:42:23 +0000 http://www.ebonyfortress.com/blog/?p=99#comment-41 I can't comment much on the promotion; I only saw the trailer, which did look to be promoting an action-adventure, but at the time I was somewhat intoxicated and standing in a field with 60,000 Germans (don't ask). However, the previews I've read seem to mention the fact that there are different game modes, and the mainstream reviews that came out simply don't agree with Tycho's assertion that it's mostly an RTS. It seems to me like he and people like him have spotted a certain set of traits within a certain part of the game, wrongly felt that they already know the rules, and have got unhappy when they found themselves not being as good at the game as they'd expected their prior knowledge to make them. Additionally, Tycho's assertion that "I don't want to play a rhythm game while I'm playing an RTS while I'm playing a third person action game" is the most damning comment in my mind. Once upon a time I truly would have said "I don't want to play an action game while I'm playing a strategy game", but these days that's exactly what I do. You have to be willing to learn a new set of skills - and unlearn old habits - if you want to enjoy new experiences in a medium such as games, I feel. I think this is partly because we in games have a poor definition of the term "genre". In games it tells you next to nothing about the setting and more about the interface and the abstract gameplay. But it is possible to vary those two independently - for example, Baldur's Gate broke from previous RPG tradition and has an interface not too dissimilar from an RTS (albeit on a much smaller scale). But because everything about it screamed 'RPG', people can overlook the fact that it physically plays much like Command and Conquer. Brütal Legend may have parts that have an RTS-like interface, so people are playing it in the same way that they played similar games with that interface, and overlooking the new things specific to this game. I wouldn't blame the designer for that. The interface has implied the genre and the genre has implied the gameplay but I think that's a problem that exists outside of this specific game and more in the gaming ecosystem. Perhaps it says something about how complex our control systems are though, that we effectively force people to learn a handful of different control paradigms in order to be able to effectively enjoy future games. Or maybe it's more a statement on how unvaried games with the same interfaces typically are; I for one was very disappointed to see that Company Of Heroes had almost exactly the same abstract gameplay system as Command and Conquer, for example. This episode also reminds me a bit of the people who complained about Thief: The Dark Project having zombies, because "it's about being a Thief, not about the supernatural". It's sad that people can't take a step back and switch off their preconceptions to enjoy the work as it was designed to be. I can’t comment much on the promotion; I only saw the trailer, which did look to be promoting an action-adventure, but at the time I was somewhat intoxicated and standing in a field with 60,000 Germans (don’t ask). However, the previews I’ve read seem to mention the fact that there are different game modes, and the mainstream reviews that came out simply don’t agree with Tycho’s assertion that it’s mostly an RTS. It seems to me like he and people like him have spotted a certain set of traits within a certain part of the game, wrongly felt that they already know the rules, and have got unhappy when they found themselves not being as good at the game as they’d expected their prior knowledge to make them.

Additionally, Tycho’s assertion that “I don’t want to play a rhythm game while I’m playing an RTS while I’m playing a third person action game” is the most damning comment in my mind. Once upon a time I truly would have said “I don’t want to play an action game while I’m playing a strategy game”, but these days that’s exactly what I do. You have to be willing to learn a new set of skills – and unlearn old habits – if you want to enjoy new experiences in a medium such as games, I feel.

I think this is partly because we in games have a poor definition of the term “genre”. In games it tells you next to nothing about the setting and more about the interface and the abstract gameplay. But it is possible to vary those two independently – for example, Baldur’s Gate broke from previous RPG tradition and has an interface not too dissimilar from an RTS (albeit on a much smaller scale). But because everything about it screamed ‘RPG’, people can overlook the fact that it physically plays much like Command and Conquer. Brütal Legend may have parts that have an RTS-like interface, so people are playing it in the same way that they played similar games with that interface, and overlooking the new things specific to this game. I wouldn’t blame the designer for that. The interface has implied the genre and the genre has implied the gameplay but I think that’s a problem that exists outside of this specific game and more in the gaming ecosystem.

Perhaps it says something about how complex our control systems are though, that we effectively force people to learn a handful of different control paradigms in order to be able to effectively enjoy future games.

Or maybe it’s more a statement on how unvaried games with the same interfaces typically are; I for one was very disappointed to see that Company Of Heroes had almost exactly the same abstract gameplay system as Command and Conquer, for example.

This episode also reminds me a bit of the people who complained about Thief: The Dark Project having zombies, because “it’s about being a Thief, not about the supernatural”. It’s sad that people can’t take a step back and switch off their preconceptions to enjoy the work as it was designed to be.

]]> By: dss539 http://www.ebonyfortress.com/blog/2009/12/02/crossover-games-and-explaining-them-to-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-40 dss539 Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:31:51 +0000 http://www.ebonyfortress.com/blog/?p=99#comment-40 While I agree with your sentiment, I think you may have misinterpreted what Tycho's opinion. I believe his main complaint was misrepresentation. The advertising showed the game as purely action. The Brütal Legend demo even completely omitted the RTS aspects. Since people base their buying decisions on advertising and the demo, this is an important point. It seem like the game was misrepresented. I don't think Tycho dislikes cross-genre games, but rather the misrepresentation. While I agree with your sentiment, I think you may have misinterpreted what Tycho’s opinion. I believe his main complaint was misrepresentation.

The advertising showed the game as purely action. The Brütal Legend demo even completely omitted the RTS aspects. Since people base their buying decisions on advertising and the demo, this is an important point. It seem like the game was misrepresented.

I don’t think Tycho dislikes cross-genre games, but rather the misrepresentation.

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